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#51 09.May.18 12:54:28

Barleycorn
Member

Re: New Path To Memorial.

..

Last edited by Barleycorn (09.May.18 12:55:33)


I went through ALL your posts, found nothing,

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#52 09.May.18 12:59:35

Barleycorn
Member

Re: New Path To Memorial.

[url

Last edited by Barleycorn (09.May.18 13:00:13)


I went through ALL your posts, found nothing,

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#53 09.May.18 13:13:04

Philpot
Banned

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Barleycorn wrote:

[url

I am not sure what you are supposed to be posting there Barleycorn but I somehow expect you to say

‘so.... what have the Romans ever done for us’ ......?

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#54 09.May.18 14:34:48

Barleycorn
Member

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Philpot wrote:
Barleycorn wrote:

[url

I am not sure what you are supposed to be posting there Barleycorn but I somehow expect you to say

‘so.... what have the Romans ever done for us’ ......?

hahaha - fat, old thumbs.

a couple of map images.


I went through ALL your posts, found nothing,

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#55 09.May.18 14:40:37

Barleycorn
Member

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Here they are ..

ancient_roam_Tangs.jpg

ancient_roam_Tangs2.jpg


So one thing the Romans didn't do for us, apart from the roads, sanitation, sewers and writing.... was build a fort at Tangs.


I went through ALL your posts, found nothing,

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#56 09.May.18 16:53:12

Philpot
Banned

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Barleycorn wrote:

Here they are ..

https://s31.postimg.cc/77d39m5uf/ancient_roam_Tangs.jpg

https://s31.postimg.cc/yhyehk3mf/ancient_roam_Tangs2.jpg


So one thing the Romans didn't do for us, apart from the roads, sanitation, sewers and writing.... was build a fort at Tangs.

Barley, it looks to me that the earthmound is existence on both those maps

Do you have a pre Roman map so we can see if was there before the Centurions arrived ?

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#57 10.May.18 07:41:45

Barleycorn
Member

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Hahaha - if only. 

It is there, but look at the contours.   No ring & ditch, no stand alone, circular mound.

Also, on the earlier it is not listed as 'fort', 'tumulus' or similar - and whilst that is not definitive, it all suggests it is modern.

The top is too small to be a hillfort, most are the size of a footy pitch, at least. Maybe Clayton sized for a decent one.    The top of the Tangs mound wouldn't suit domestic or industrial use.  Could be a beacon, but no evidence of that either.


I went through ALL your posts, found nothing,

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#58 10.May.18 08:28:05

Philpot
Banned

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Barleycorn wrote:

Hahaha - if only. 

It is there, but look at the contours.   No ring & ditch, no stand alone, circular mound.

Also, on the earlier it is not listed as 'fort', 'tumulus' or similar - and whilst that is not definitive, it all suggests it is modern.

The top is too small to be a hillfort, most are the size of a footy pitch, at least. Maybe Clayton sized for a decent one.    The top of the Tangs mound wouldn't suit domestic or industrial use.  Could be a beacon, but no evidence of that either.

The contours of the mound are indeed visible on the upper and more recent map which also shows the cuttings for the A627M motorway, so must it be a relatively recent map


The older lower map does not show contours at all. So it will not show the mound. Only boundary lines and features. And something is located at the site of the monument mound

I do vaguely recall the historian providing some kind of evidence of the existence of the mound in antiquity, but I can’t recall the detail. I was boozing at the time

The plot thickens ...

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#59 10.May.18 16:34:18

Barleycorn
Member

Re: New Path To Memorial.

It isn't prehistoric / pre-Roman.    Honestly.

Early modern at the oldest.



One possibility - a Moot Hill. 

Although again, there is little known about locally to suggest it ever was.

http://www.wiki-zero.net/index.php?q=aH … 9vdF9oaWxs

Look at the list of other names used for hills and mounds.

"Many moot, "mote" or "mute" hills are known by that name today. Others have local names such as Court Hill, Judges Hill, Justice Hill, Judgement Hill, Mount, Munt, Moat Hill, Tandle, Downan, Bonfire Hill, Cuthill, etc. Many are also associated with names such as Knol, knock, knowe, or law.[2]

Many other names are used for prominent earthworks, depending to some extent on their location within the United Kingdom, and some of them are known to have served as moot hills at some point in their existence. Terms include Tumulus, how, howe, low, tump, cnwc, pen, butt, toot, tot, cop, mount, mound, hill, knoll, mot, moot, knol, motte, and druid hill. Often the names are combined, as in Knockenlaw, Law Mount, etc."

Last edited by Barleycorn (10.May.18 16:41:51)


I went through ALL your posts, found nothing,

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#60 10.May.18 18:03:32

Philpot
Banned

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Barleycorn wrote:

It isn't prehistoric / pre-Roman.    Honestly.

Early modern at the oldest.



One possibility - a Moot Hill. 

Although again, there is little known about locally to suggest it ever was.

http://www.wiki-zero.net/index.php?q=aH … 9vdF9oaWxs

Look at the list of other names used for hills and mounds.

"Many moot, "mote" or "mute" hills are known by that name today. Others have local names such as Court Hill, Judges Hill, Justice Hill, Judgement Hill, Mount, Munt, Moat Hill, Tandle, Downan, Bonfire Hill, Cuthill, etc. Many are also associated with names such as Knol, knock, knowe, or law.[2]

Many other names are used for prominent earthworks, depending to some extent on their location within the United Kingdom, and some of them are known to have served as moot hills at some point in their existence. Terms include Tumulus, how, howe, low, tump, cnwc, pen, butt, toot, tot, cop, mount, mound, hill, knoll, mot, moot, knol, motte, and druid hill. Often the names are combined, as in Knockenlaw, Law Mount, etc."

There is no evidence rule out a Roman or Saxon orgin for the mount

It would have made an excellent position to defend the area from the maurading hoards of Rochdalium

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#61 17.May.18 14:56:10

Barleycorn
Member

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Philpot wrote:
Barleycorn wrote:

It isn't prehistoric / pre-Roman.    Honestly.

Early modern at the oldest.



One possibility - a Moot Hill. 

Although again, there is little known about locally to suggest it ever was.

http://www.wiki-zero.net/index.php?q=aH … 9vdF9oaWxs

Look at the list of other names used for hills and mounds.

"Many moot, "mote" or "mute" hills are known by that name today. Others have local names such as Court Hill, Judges Hill, Justice Hill, Judgement Hill, Mount, Munt, Moat Hill, Tandle, Downan, Bonfire Hill, Cuthill, etc. Many are also associated with names such as Knol, knock, knowe, or law.[2]

Many other names are used for prominent earthworks, depending to some extent on their location within the United Kingdom, and some of them are known to have served as moot hills at some point in their existence. Terms include Tumulus, how, howe, low, tump, cnwc, pen, butt, toot, tot, cop, mount, mound, hill, knoll, mot, moot, knol, motte, and druid hill. Often the names are combined, as in Knockenlaw, Law Mount, etc."

There is no evidence rule out a Roman or Saxon orgin for the mount

It would have made an excellent position to defend the area from the maurading hoards of Rochdalium

Except the top of the mound is tiny, when you think about it. 

No spring, no resources.

When I get time, I plan to look into this in more detail - but my money is on the feature sitting above the land between Rochdale Road and the M627 that was shaped by industrial era sand/gravel extraction activity - and the mound being a remnant of that activity that got landscaped when the trees were planted, then used for the memorial and the mapping trig point later on.

Last edited by Barleycorn (17.May.18 14:57:25)


I went through ALL your posts, found nothing,

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#62 17.May.18 17:13:29

Philpot
Banned

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Barleycorn wrote:
Philpot wrote:
Barleycorn wrote:

It isn't prehistoric / pre-Roman.    Honestly.

Early modern at the oldest.



One possibility - a Moot Hill. 

Although again, there is little known about locally to suggest it ever was.

http://www.wiki-zero.net/index.php?q=aH … 9vdF9oaWxs

Look at the list of other names used for hills and mounds.

"Many moot, "mote" or "mute" hills are known by that name today. Others have local names such as Court Hill, Judges Hill, Justice Hill, Judgement Hill, Mount, Munt, Moat Hill, Tandle, Downan, Bonfire Hill, Cuthill, etc. Many are also associated with names such as Knol, knock, knowe, or law.[2]

Many other names are used for prominent earthworks, depending to some extent on their location within the United Kingdom, and some of them are known to have served as moot hills at some point in their existence. Terms include Tumulus, how, howe, low, tump, cnwc, pen, butt, toot, tot, cop, mount, mound, hill, knoll, mot, moot, knol, motte, and druid hill. Often the names are combined, as in Knockenlaw, Law Mount, etc."

There is no evidence rule out a Roman or Saxon orgin for the mount

It would have made an excellent position to defend the area from the maurading hoards of Rochdalium

Except the top of the mound is tiny, when you think about it. 

No spring, no resources.

When I get time, I plan to look into this in more detail - but my money is on the feature sitting above the land between Rochdale Road and the M627 that was shaped by industrial era sand/gravel extraction activity - and the mound being a remnant of that activity that got landscaped when the trees were planted, then used for the memorial and the mapping trig point later on.

Nonsense Barlaycorn

Quarry men would never take excavated material to the top of a hill. !!That would be the most inefficient and back breaking method of disposal. It just would not happen

Excavated materials are always disposed of downhill.

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#63 17.May.18 20:21:00

Woody
Member

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Barleycorn wrote:

This is not a hillfort, iron age, roman or otherwise.

A quick look at Edina digimap for a map regression shows the memorial appears after the parkland is created - probably on a mound created during the landscaping or as a result of the various extraction industries that took sand and gravel from around the town.


There are remnants of prehistory all over the borough and beyond ( some nice Mesolithic stuff being found at a project with line of sight of Tandle Hills, over by the wind farm near Rochdale)  but this mound is not one of them, sadly.




Years ago The Castleton Sand and Gravel was at Trows Lane you turned up just before the motorway bridge the workings are still visible though overgrown to the left as you leave the east bound exit of the M62 at Jnc 20,
Extraction finished around the early seventies when the grey delivery wagons disappeared and the workings flooded,


I would if I could but I can't,

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#64 20.May.18 09:47:46

Philpot
Banned

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Woody wrote:
Barleycorn wrote:

This is not a hillfort, iron age, roman or otherwise.

A quick look at Edina digimap for a map regression shows the memorial appears after the parkland is created - probably on a mound created during the landscaping or as a result of the various extraction industries that took sand and gravel from around the town.


There are remnants of prehistory all over the borough and beyond ( some nice Mesolithic stuff being found at a project with line of sight of Tandle Hills, over by the wind farm near Rochdale)  but this mound is not one of them, sadly.




Years ago The Castleton Sand and Gravel was at Trows Lane you turned up just before the motorway bridge the workings are still visible though overgrown to the left as you leave the east bound exit of the M62 at Jnc 20,
Extraction finished around the early seventies when the grey delivery wagons disappeared and the workings flooded,

I assume you mean the area marked here Woody

DdoKlAHVwAEtdGv.jpg

Barleycorn, you will notice would have been a long way to haul spoil ....uphill..... to the top of monument mound !!!

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#65 20.May.18 10:04:06

Tony
Member

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Repeat post^^^^^^^ roll


War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

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#66 20.May.18 11:00:44

Philpot
Banned

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Tony wrote:

Repeat post^^^^^^^ roll

I assume that your constant posting of roll after my posts has some sort of hidden meaning

Perhaps you would share that with us

Either that or you are a rollyeyed stalker  big_smile

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#67 20.May.18 11:04:49

exile
Member

Re: New Path To Memorial.

But if ancient Britons could haul great stones from Wales to Salisbury Plain I am sure they could lug a few bucket fulls of dirt to Tangs. 

Anyway what does it matter now after all this time, you two are arguing for arguings sake.  The war memorial is redundant now and the event takes place in Royton Park.  The numb nuts in the civic centre removed the wreath from below the memorial for some ideological reason so Tangs is now just a place to take your dog to do it's business. 

Times change, move on.


who is bigger Mr Bigger or Mr Biggers son ? the son he is a little Bigger

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#68 20.May.18 11:42:29

Philpot
Banned

Re: New Path To Memorial.

exile wrote:

But if ancient Britons could haul great stones from Wales to Salisbury Plain I am sure they could lug a few bucket fulls of dirt to Tangs. 

Anyway what does it matter now after all this time, you two are arguing for arguings sake.  The war memorial is redundant now and the event takes place in Royton Park.  The numb nuts in the civic centre removed the wreath from below the memorial for some ideological reason so Tangs is now just a place to take your dog to do it's business. 

Times change, move on.

It’s not arguing Exile, it’s called debate.  And that what forums are for

A forum without debate is a mere echo chamber

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#69 20.May.18 11:44:42

exile
Member

Re: New Path To Memorial.

Philpot wrote:
exile wrote:

But if ancient Britons could haul great stones from Wales to Salisbury Plain I am sure they could lug a few bucket fulls of dirt to Tangs. 

Anyway what does it matter now after all this time, you two are arguing for arguing's sake.  The war memorial is redundant now and the event takes place in Royton Park.  The numb nuts in the civic centre removed the wreath from below the memorial for some ideological reason so Tangs is now just a place to take your dog to do it's business. 

Times change, move on.

It’s not arguing Exile, it’s called debate.  And that what forums are for

A forum without debate is a mere echo chamber

still sounds more like arguing for arguing's sake and its getting boring now


who is bigger Mr Bigger or Mr Biggers son ? the son he is a little Bigger

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#70 20.May.18 12:01:18

Philpot
Banned

Re: New Path To Memorial.

exile wrote:
Philpot wrote:
exile wrote:

But if ancient Britons could haul great stones from Wales to Salisbury Plain I am sure they could lug a few bucket fulls of dirt to Tangs. 

Anyway what does it matter now after all this time, you two are arguing for arguing's sake.  The war memorial is redundant now and the event takes place in Royton Park.  The numb nuts in the civic centre removed the wreath from below the memorial for some ideological reason so Tangs is now just a place to take your dog to do it's business. 

Times change, move on.

It’s not arguing Exile, it’s called debate.  And that what forums are for

A forum without debate is a mere echo chamber

still sounds more like arguing for arguing's sake and its getting boring now

Oh my mistake, I did not realise that my posts were simply for your amusement ..

Perhaps you could post a list of topics you would like us to debate  wink

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